The Ed Eppley Experience
The Ed Eppley Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

30 Minutes with a CRM Leader

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If your organization uses a CRM, you need to listen to this episode. You'll meet John Ferrara, Founder and CEO of Nimble, the first truly different CRM. John founded and built Goldmine. He scaled it, sold it and retired. Being a purpose-driven leader, he couldn't stay retired. He looked at the CRM landscape and realized virtually every CRM had become primarily a means of capturing data, not managing and developing relationships. We discuss Jon's journey as an entrepreneur and leader and why salespeople (and I) love Nimble. Listen and learn more about this fascinating leader, entrepreneur and possible tool for your business.

Hi, this is at Eppley. You're about to listen to one of my podcast, this one with John Ferrara, CEO of Nimble, and he's going to make an offer at the end of this podcast that would make it very easy and simple and cost effective for you to try his wonderful CRM nimble. So pay attention at the end of this podcast to the offer from John. Welcome to the Ed Epley experience. 20 minutes that simplifies the complex job of managing and leading people and inspires you to take action on what you probably already know to build and sustain a smart and healthy business. Here's your host Ed athlete to introduce this week's guest and business leader. Welcome to the Epley experience, the podcast designed to simplify the complex job of managing and leading people. And our goal today, like always, is to provide our listeners with at least one proven and practical way to run a more sustainable, successful and hopefully profitable business. Our guest today. Fascinating guy. He's a Renaissance guy who happens to be in the software technology world. He's an innovator. He's, I believe, from best I can tell he's a thought leader I think he's kind of on the cutting edge of the front edge of of a lot of things. We're gonna learn more about one of them. He's charismatic, calls California home, and it was rubbing the find whether in the in our face earlier today before we got started, and I don't blame him. If I had it to look at, I'd be I'd be all over it as well. His name is John Ferrara and John You and I met not that long ago. It's less than a year ago, but I want to welcome you to the EPL experience. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us today. And first off, I just want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to share conversation with you to inspire and grow others, because I believe that's why we're on this planet. I believe that I'm on this planet to grow my soul, and I do that best by helping other people grow. There's and so any time that I can have a conversation with another human being to learn about them and blow in in their sales, that's making my day. So thanks for making my day, buddy. You're welcome. Excited to do it. We met on another podcast where we were both guests. And so that was the first time I had heard of and really understood, though. What nimble Waas. It's a pretty fascinating organization and one that I've come to rely on. So would you tell the audience about who Nimble is what it does and maybe how you created Nimble and really got into that business? You bet so. Nimble dot com is a SAS business application to enable individuals and teams to manage the most valuable business asset. Their relationships. Some people call that CRM. Some people call it contact management. I just called good business because I really believe that your network and your brand net worth and that you need to nurture your brand and your network on a daily basis. And they're the people...

...are gonna help you achieve your dreams. But most people don't really manage their contacts effectively. Most people manage the contacts and spreadsheets email, post it notes, social or combination thereof. You know, for those of you who know what CRM is, customer relationship management, it's supposed to be about managing relationships. Actually, it's about managing, reporting. There's a thing called Salesforce, and it's in the number one serum globally. And the reason they called Salesforce. You've gotta force sales people to use it. Most people hate their serum, and they kind of love their contact tools. But I think that both of our broken today and I know a thing or two about this because I actually invented them both. So before there was outlook. Before there was the term CRM, Goldmine helped pioneer Contact management in serum before outlook or Salesforce existed. And I started that company with a college friend of mine because I struggled to manage relationships and I knew that relationships were critical to your life success, and I was managing them on paper and day timers. Remember day timers? Ed? Yeah, and basically I did my forecast in the spreadsheet, and I said, There's got to be a better way. And I looked around for a tool to do, and I couldn't find it because I had a computer science degree and I knew about programming. I knew about software. I worked my way through school in a computer land store. I knew there wasn't a program, their integrated email, contact and calendar and sales and Mark automation. So I started a company called Goldman and $5000 over 10 years. We grew up to about $100 million in revenue. I sold that when I was 40 for cash and retired for 10 years and raised three babies. Man, you got such a story to tell. I'm trying to get clear in my own mind. Were you a sales guy who happened to be in technology or were you technology guy who happened to sell? I think the latter. I think to really understand that you've got to go to my roots. So I know this is one of your questions later on. But let's just tackle it now. So who inspired me to be who I am? Father was the number one Lincoln Mercury guy in the country in the fifties and seventies, he had the first Subaru dealership in California, so I grew up on my dad's car lot. But I never wanted to be in sales because as a teenager, you separate from your parents, so I e. My dad was the dumbest thing in the world, right? He was in sales, right? That's a four letter word. And my uncle helped invent radar Microwave at M i t. And he was president elect Tripoli and had his own aerospace company. He was a Dina engineering at the local university. And I wanted to be like him because I grew up watching the space program and every kid like me in the sixties wanted to be an astronaut. So I studied computer science and not be like my dad, but I had to pay my way through school. So I got a job in sales at a computer store because I knew everything about computers because I bought my first computer in 1978 95 of them in my bedroom in college. So what happened? Waas After graduating from school, I still don't wanna be in sales. Even though I was making $80,000 year working part time in 1981 I said, no. I'm gonna work in aerospace. I got a job, a huge space and common huge missile systems for two years, and I...

...quickly figured out I'm not aerospace guy got a job with a start up in Boston, and it was there that he put me in sales. And it was there that I struggled to manage the sales process because there were no tools for contract management and marketing and pipeline management. So because of my computer science background, because I knew that we software program the market because I worked in a computer in store for five years, I knew what the market needed. I knew what existed and didn't exist. And so I synthesized the idea of serum and contact management. My co founder coded it. So was act already in business. At that point, there was a story about act. So when I was in Dallas working sales, I found a plug into Symphony, which was a spreadsheet back then that allowed you to do Contact Management, which is tasked and notes on contacts. And that was act how they started in Dallas and my SC, my systems engineering band, and went to go work for act. So I got to know who they were. And so ultimately, when I decided to build something, I looked at all the different tools on the market Act hadn't evolved quite yet then, and it was mainly a tool for standalone contact management. So it didn't have it wasn't built for a team. And you think about back in those days. Novel was just starting, so networking application would just hit the market. And so we basically wanted to build a team relationship managers or team of people consider the contacts, and it had the pipeline management and the automated marketing built in which act was only a standalone contact tool for individuals. And so we sort of took a blend of tell a magic act, snap, sailmaker and a little bit of Sprinkle of our own design blended with WordPerfect Office and Outlook Express into sort of what Goldmine became. So what year did you start? Goldmine? 89 89. So I was managing the sales force then, and I think we probably were still using act and, you know, couldn't coalesce that information into anything usable without a whole lot of individual effort. So did gold mine hit the ground running and just never stop. Was it a success from Day one or did did not have a lot of proving thio journey. Okay, so we started out. My co founder convinced me to come help him selling accounting program network accounting for him that he had created. And so I was pounding doors trying to sell that accounting software. And as I pounded the doors and built my pipeline of customers and resellers, I needed a way to manage it. And so I got damn Brooklyn's demo, which the screen layout program and I basically laid out what Goldman would would become. And I said, Build me this So he built me that we started using internally and we started building up revenue on the accounting system. Maybe 15 2025 grand a month. But but basically, as we hit the trade shows and we showed the...

...county program, the goldmine program is sort of in the back, and that's all people want to see way basically follow the natural progression off our customers speaking Tow us about what these were. Plus, I was a computer science math major. I don't know a thing about credits and debits, and I didn't really enjoy selling accounting software, but I did. I did enjoy selling gold mine because what's better than a tool that helps business transform the way they sell and grow was goldmine, your name did you come up with that? And how did you debate between my co founder and me? But the truth is, I did. And my dad had terms for everything, right? So my dad was born in Sicily and he grew up in New York, and he had words for everything and some of those words I can't repeat in today's proper world. But one of the words that he would use a lot was that business is a gold mine. So when we go into the Cheesecake Factory and it's basically packed basically packing that place for $20 per plate for food and there's a line out the door or pink's hot dogs or other places like that cash businesses, since that's a gold mine. And so I said to myself, What is what are your contacts all about? Whether you're goldmine? Because if you can put Mawr into that mind and get Maura or out of it right, that's your gold mine. And so literally. I really believe that relationships are in investment, their pay it forward thing and I think, the biggest currency of relationships, our introductions, because you know what? What better way for you to help another human being. But yes, goldmine, according to my recollection, was something I came up with. You know, I didn't think he even mentioned this in the prep for the show. But it occurs to me that for our listeners sake, I'm a user of nimble. I love what it does for me. One of the features that I love is how easy it is to keep track of emails that you send to others and and the feature of knowing when they've opened une email. Yeah, really attractive to me to know whether did they open it or not? And whose idea was to to include that in the offering? That was something that our team came up with actually was our customers. Our customers told us that I believe that the best way to grow a business is by listening to your customers and they'll tell you what they need. And we didn't really get to describing Nimble. But let me tell you about what nimble it, please. I want our listeners today do if if you're using another, which a lot of people are. I didn't know how many options there were in Syria until I was doing my homework, so there's a huge number of options. But if you haven't looked at nimble, my goal today is that at a minimum, people would explore it to see whether or not it has value. So explain nibbles, value prop to our our audience. You get if you're an individual or you're part of a team at a company, contacts are all over the place in your life, right? And so an individual You might have an account in Gmail. Personally, you might have an...

...officer and 65 account for your business stuff you might have. Ah, Apple Cloud account to, and you've got email contact and calendar in all those different places. Beyond that, as a person, as a professional person, you might also have a website, and you might have Mel chimp and might capture leads from there. And you put them into your mail chimp and you nurture them, and then you might have some sort of process for engaging. Could be a spreadsheet could be a CRM, and then once you close them as an account, you put him in the accounting system so you can collect the money. So today you have siloed contacts in your contact platform, whether it's G suite, office weeks, five iCloud or a combination thereof, you have silos and your business applications, and individual people use business applications, so that could be sales, marketing, customer service and counting on. So as a company, you have the exact same problem. It's just multiplied because every single team member in your company has a separate contact database in G suite in office. Now, people may not really grasp what I just said, so I'm gonna repeat it really slowly when you go to a contact record in G Sweeter Office 3 65. You don't see the integrated email and calendar activities that you or the team have done with that person and every team member of separate contact database. So there is no unified system of record of relationships in your business. So you have contacts. In QuickBooks, you have contacts and mail chimp. You have contacts in your email program, all these different things. And so the beauty of nimble is it essentially is the first year, and that works for you by building itself and then works with you everywhere you work, what does that mean unify your contacts from all the disparate places we synchronize with 250 plus business APS and email platforms. We unify them into a single record inside of nimble. We then synchronize every interaction that you and the team have on email, calendar and social. Then we enrich the contact with people in company data. So you'll have to Google people. You nimble them because it is your job to know somebody is and what their business is about Before you ever engaged with them. Today, we google them. Tomorrow you nimble them, and then we work back where you work because we have a plug in for your email. We have a plug in for your business, APS. So no matter where you're working with the contact, you like you open open email, you can see who that person is. What happened? Who did it? What's gonna happen? Who's going to do it if the record exists? If the record doesn't exist, you could build a record on the fly where will automatically, you know, build all this beautiful data for them. And so I like to say that we're the first year that works for you by building itself and then works with you everywhere you work, which I think is one of the reasons why people love using nimble and that the crux of it is that were built for relationships and the person engaging. Most serums are built for reporting and the person managing say that one more time because I think that's that's the essence of it. The reason why people love gold, mine and act is because it helped them to build relationships and be successful with people. What...

...happened was serum was invented, and they ripped the gold mines and acts out of people's hands. And they shoved him with Siebel in Salesforce, which those serums aren't about relationships. They're about reporting, and they're about commanding control. So the reason why people love nimble is it's there to help the customer facing business team member engage more effectively. Yes, we have the reporting, but it's not the focus of nimble. The focus of Nimble is empowering your team to be successful with the contacts. If a sales manager is listening and I know a few of you are, and um, if a business owner is listening and I know a few of you are, and you're at all concerned about whether or not you have strengthen your relationships with an individual or organization over time. Nimble is really effective at making it simple to improve the frequency at which you communicate and the ways you communicate with those contacts. It's really remarkable. I know that when I've entered contacts into nimble immediately, what populates and shows is information about them, from Lincoln, from Twitter and from these other 250 or so applications. So all of a sudden you're seeing a more holistic approach to who this person is and what they are, what they're interested in, what they care about, and all of a sudden you have on opportunity to talk about something with them, should you reach out to them and they don't know who you are. You could at least sound intelligent about knowing that person knowing something about them like you've done your homework and that Zatz shortens the sale cycle dramatically and add, Isn't this what you taught salespeople 2030 years ago? Oh yeah, when you going office looking through the walls. Look at the book. Read the degree of the school. They went to the knick knacks. They collect Why? To figure out what you have in common in order to share the commonalities in order to earn intimacy and trust and get them to open up to you about their businesses use, which is a professional you could then solve. I called the five s of life. This is how we connect as human beings. And we remember each other family, friend, food, fun and fellowship. Right. This is This is why you need to move beyond the Lincoln Connection into connections in places like Facebook and Instagram. Because that's where you're gonna learn about that person's heart and soul and build a connection that will survive delivery issues or pricing issues. Business issues that occur Give me the five s again. Family, food, friendship, family, friend, food, fun and fellowship. Quickly the softer side of a human being that you definitely want to connect with. Like where they go to school. What's your team they like, You know, it's the reason why when we pick up the phone and we talked to somebody we don't get to the point like saying Did you sign the contract? Right. You say Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. How about them Lakers? You know, whatever. Whatever it iss right, you connect. Have you ever read Dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people? It's right there on my shelf. That's I wondered, because you you're you're talking about those basic human relations principles...

...becoming genuinely interested in the other person that z you know John Wooden said it best. It's the basics that wins games. And I think that a lot of sales people don't do the basics because it's too much work, right? Yeah, typing in the stuff that they googled on the business of the company because that's what they're supposed to do rather than the computer doing that for them. And then you do what's important, which is log in the notes scheduler task. Is it safe to say, because I feel this way about nimble? Is it safe to say it's fairly intuitive? I hope so. Yeah. I think it's intuitive in terms of what it collects for me is a salesperson. Yes. And also the floor, right? How do you enter a note? How do you schedule a task? Right? The basic stuff. And did you know, And there's 225 million global businesses and less than 1% use any serum. No, I'm wait a minute. Seriously. And the biggest cause of feather serum is lack of use. The second is bad data, lack of use because you got to force people to use it because you work for it doesn't work for you and bad data. Because even if you type the data in all decay, like fish and in a matter of days, because people changing companies change. We used to set appointments for our clients. We were a contract ID resource toe. Shorten the sale cycle by getting appointments for professional services entities. And the data that you know that we would acquire either from them or from other outside sources was so bad, the quality was so bad. At least 25% of it is worthless. Yeah, I remember those days. What was the name of that Indian guy with the database? Use a Remember him? Vin Gupta. I think you're right. But the people out of Boston were the first ones to really go big on the appointment setting. But all I know is that to your point data goes bad, it absolutely goes bad. If it's not, if it's not maintained and nimble really helps you do that with without a lot of work for the individual salesperson. Thea, the thing I like about is how easy it is to manage your pipeline, what you have in there and what you see and how you can organize it to stay relevant. Amount of pipeline and a pipeline isn't just deals. You're closing, right? Right. Because you think about a typical business. You're not just working with prospects and customers, right? I'm not a customer of yours, right? I'm I'm an inspirational educator. Preacher guy. Talk a business and you bring me on your show in order to share knowledge in order to grow your audience and help them grow. So I would be on a different kind of pipeline, right? I'm a lot past prospect. And do you have a pipeline of podcast prospects? Maybe another business person might have investors or PR people that he's reaching out to get people to write stories and so you can have different types of pipelines. Also, another pipeline is after you sold somebody something. Then you want to implement them, right? So that pipeline, it's a post sales pipeline. And so when you guys start thinking about pipelines...

...and I don't mean Thio not talk about gals, because when I say guys, I mean guys and gals. When you start thinking about pipelines, you gotta think about all the different flows that each of the different team members might be doing. So CRM or nimble isn't just for sales people. It's not just salespeople that sell. Everybody in your company is in the process of touching your constituency, and it nimble. Our constituency is editors, analyst, bloggers, influencers, third party developers, investors, advisers and prospects and customers and the influencers off those prospects and customers. And so our whole team uses nimble and anybody listen to this. They should have a team relationship manager, not just a serum for salespeople. When I started exploring whether or not to use nimble, I started looking at your website and one of things I noticed. It's a very diverse company. You've got a variety of talent that's there. Was that by design or it was that by accident. Well, I really believe in the strength of diversity. Add if you think about a rope. It's not one string. It's a mixture of strings, and that's what makes it strong. My father was an immigrant. My mother's family immigrated. I'm Irish and Sicilian, and I don't know if you know or not. But the Irish and Sicilians and the Catholics, where they where the doormat back in the day. And so I know what it is to struggle. And so I like to give people a step up in life. And so we have a very diverse group of people, including an international group that I was thinking of. Yeah, yeah, we have a development team in Ukraine. We have people from Armenia. We have people from all parts of the United States and all types. I really believe that, as I said from the beginning, that you could achieve anything you want in life by helping others grow right. That's a something. Was that Dale Carnegie or Zig Ziglar? Zig Ziglar, I think, said that. And, uh, and it's It's my Bible. It's my mantra. And so I think that a business persons main job is to a communicate vision, provide the tools, empower the people to make decisions in the face of the customer and hire great people and grow them, but mainly get out of the way. And I think that if you're constantly growing people to the point where they love going to work and they love what they do because they see themselves growing and changing over time, that's really what it's all about. And I think that's the same philosophy, not just for your employees. And I like to call them employees. I call my team members, but also your customers to right. I think that's the problem with sales today is that it's about bagging and tagging as opposed to growing right. So services the new sales your job is a sales person is to help that person grow, even if it means recommending a competing product. If I worked for you when you were a gold mine and I work for you now nimble, what would I notice the most different about you and how...

...you manage and lead what would be the biggest difference in either how you show up in terms your behavior or what would be the difference in your attitude? If anything, I think I might have a softer heart. I might be slightly less cocky. Uh, you know, And I was I was gifted with a beautiful mind and I put it to work. And sometimes you know, when you're successful, you could get a little full of yourself, and I'm sure that I did at some parents. But I think you should actually interview some of my ex team members because there's some really amazing people that could share drop some really great knowledge. But I think it be important for people to see a contrast of the way I sort of see it in the way they see it. I think the key thing that I take away from both the businesses is that we we are family. And I say that the present tense right? And I think that when the bullets start flying at a business which they inevitably do, if there is a human connection with the person next to you, there's a bigger chance they're gonna have your back. And I think that a family, a team, teams win games. My pop taught me that. I think that the big difference might be that after all the trials and tribulations, I've been through in my life. I think I might just have a softer heart and be a little bit less cocky and mawr empathetic. But I always had a bit of a software, and I always was empathetic. It's just who I am on. I think it's what made me successful, being able to see and read things that other people couldn't. Did that come from your mom more than your dad, do you think? Oh, I don't know that my dad was a bit of a softy to, uh, But I do believe that there is a special nature to the Irish, almost a gift of something deeper. And I believe if you trust yourself and listen to the signals that you're hearing both in your ears and your eyes, but also those other senses that you can't describe that you could synthesize net new information. That's pretty incredible. It can help you be successful in life. You know, I've been to Ireland to my home towns of my ancestors, and I've been to Sicily and they're both amazing people. But I think there's a certain gift that the Irish have that might be indescribable. I kind of get that I've. I've been fortunate to be Goto Ireland once and loved it. Want to go back, and I've been to Italy as well, and I want to go back toe. That place is well, but it's a lot harder to see all of Italy than it is to see all of iron your island Southwestern, part down at Waterville in in that area, water for well, Waterville is the golf club, and I think it's a town of Waterville as well. Charlie Chaplin's summer Get Away is where it waas interesting. So my down in the south, around Cork and then up...

...up near Galway and Mayo And yeah, it's a it's a great place. But I do think that business people need to do mawr than the basics in regards to what they might learn in a business book. I think to really, really be special in a business that you have to trust in a higher power. Why do you say that? Because I don't think that anybody could do anything on their own that you really need Thio. I call it the three piece of life right? Figure out what your passion is. Build a plan to achieve it, make it purpose on a daily basis. And it's one of the things I learned from this book, which is the Bible of many of the millionaires I know. Thinking rich. Yeah, but the thing is, is that I don't care how much acumen you've gotten, how much you do. Sometimes you need a miracle. You need more, and I really do believe in in my higher power and being able to send my prayers up to my higher power. And I believe that if you are willing to send your prayers, uh, and present enough to listen when that higher power knocks on the door and brave enough to walk through that door, that's when the magic happens. And I'm not being religious here. I'm not talking about any religion. It's a it's a higher power, which I think is above religion, right? If religion is here, which is this where they basically write books and create religions around profits? I'm talking about something you know, just just beyond whose God what God. It's just it's not a dogma, right? That's right. That's right. I appreciate you making yourself vulnerable and sharing that because, as you describe the bullets will fly If you're going to be in business and ultimately owned and operated business, Put your capital at risk. You're gonna have moments where they're gonna be Crisis of faith. There's gonna be a crisis of conscience. It's gonna be How in the hell do I manage this? And is it worth it? If you don't have that higher power option to at least calm your thinking and cause you to step back and and think about long term, what's going to really matter when you're on your deathbed? What? What will you think about? I think it's a It's a powerful lever for most of us when we have that option. Yeah, there's a song that brings to me again I'm not getting any any dogma. But this particular one says, Jesus, take the wheel e Like that. Yeah, And here is an example that's really life. Non religious. You ever ridden a motorcycle in the desert? No. Okay, I have We had this thing, this place out near Southern California. That was a big white desert. If you ride a motorcycle in the desert and you hold onto the handlebars too tight, you're gonna fall it's just gonna crash because the sand needs you to let go of the wheel enough so it could just play...

...through the sand. It sort of floats, and you could just float through the sand by just letting it do its thing. And so you you're sort of trusting, right? You're trusting that flow right there. And so I think that also applies to your team because you're never going to be successful as a business person. If you're always holding the wheel and not letting other people drive and you know what they're gonna they're gonna hit things. They're gonna make mistakes. That's how they grow. So I believe that a smart business person hires people who are smarter than them and gives them vision, empowers them and lets them go even when they know they could do that particularly. Think better. But you'll grow unless you do that. Yeah. The limits for the organisation's development really rests. Oftentimes, in the capacity of the owner, the President, the CEO, to let others make the mistakes they need. Thio, in order to become better, you know, to grow and you can't teach experience, John. You cannot teach it. You can only earn it. I wanna ask you like I do. Every guest were at that time where we're pretty much at the end of our time today. So what is that one thing that if you had a chance toe talkto any business owner or president executive, she or he said, What's what's the What's the one thing that you think most matters toe me running amore, effective business or team that that if I only do this one thing, this would be the most important one? Well, I question what your purpose of having a business even is right. I mean, are you there to make money? Are you there to make a million dollars? If you make a million dollars today, are you gonna be happy? Is that gonna do it for you? If you make $10 million you got $10 million in the bank. Is that your goal in life? So we didn't have any investors at Goldmine. We started on $5000 grouped about $100 million in revenue over 10 years. And we sold it for cash so you could do some multiplication of what? That that number Waas. Let's just say it was a lot of money. Ah, Year after that, I got ahead tumor and almost died. So So there I waas sitting there with my second baby being born and millions in the bank more than I ever spent in my life thinking, really, Is this it? And so if you don't remember anything, I said you're not going to take the money with you. The only thing that you're gonna take with you or leave behind or the moment you've been truly present with other human beings taking the time to learn enough about them and blondes and wind in their sails those ripples through the pond. And so if you're a business person and your goals is making money, I don't think you your I don't think that's it. Certainly you have to manage business, so it's profitable, and you, you know you're doing all the basic business stuff. But I believe if you create ah, business with a purpose that serves other...

...people's needs, make the your customer the hero and transform them. That is what success is all about because people don't buy great products. They buy better versions of themselves. And so as a business person. What you should be doing on a daily basis is selling other people a better version of themselves. And if you do that, you could build a gold mine. I know I did. Yeah, I love it. He's John Ferrara. He's the CEO of Nimble. He's clearly if he's nothing else, he's passionate. But I also know that he's purpose driven. I'm already a big fan. So, John, if people want to reach you and learn more about nimble CRM or what what you've done to be a successful is you have is a leader. What's the best way for them to reach you? Well, if anybody wants to reach me, it's easy. Just give me an email J O N and nimble dot com, or Google Me John John Jail in Ferrara And just connect with me on whatever channels most effective for you. And if you want to try nimble dot com, just go to our website nimble dot com and sign up. It's free for two weeks. You have to put a credit card in or anything and be sure to somewhat some of our videos because we have a lot of really great training videos, and the whole point of nimble is to help you achieve your dreams in life. If and if after the trial, you feel that it's helping you move your life forward, I want to give you 40% off your first three months. Just used the code J O N 40 John, 40. When you start becoming a subscriber, and be sure to connect with me and let me know how we at Nimble can help you achieve your dreams in life. He likes to fill other people's sales. Hey, does it so well. You've been a great guest on the Epley experience, John. Look forward to having you here real soon. Thanks so much, Thank you. And it was my pleasure. Thank you for listening to the Ed Epley experience form or information on building a more sustainable, smarter and healthier business. Visit WWW theme Epley group dot com For Resource is Tips and Ed's latest blog's. That's the Epley e p p L E y group dot com, plus. Take a free assessment at the Epley group dot com slash assessment to find out how you measure up as a highly skilled and accomplished manager and where to focus on improving your skills.

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